Saving Your Budget From Zombie Subscriptions (podcast)

00:36
To help us out, I'm welcoming back Kasey Radney to the podcast. Kasey is a client service manager based in Palisades Hudson's Atlanta office. He's a Certified Financial Planner® certificant and serves our clients in areas including bookkeeping, investment management and tax preparation, among many others. Kasey, thanks so much for sitting down with me today to fight off the zombie horde.

Kasey Radney
Hey, Amy. Thank you for having me back on. I'm excited to be here, and for something as fun as fighting off some zombies. Should be a good time.

Amy Laburda 01:04
I think it's pretty appropriate. I remember correctly, the first season of “The Walking Dead” featured Atlanta prominently, so you're well positioned down there.

Kasey Radney
It did. I remember the exact highway shot they used for the first opening, pilot episode. Really cool.

Amy Laburda
Yeah. Something to think of while you're stuck in traffic down there now, I hope. So let's start with the term “zombie subscriptions.” What are we talking about? What is a zombie subscription?

Kasey Radney
Well, it's no surprise. Nearly every single person on Earth at this point,

01:32
and day and age, has either one or multiple different types of services they use. Whether they use it for personal or business uses, everyone has at least one. I think it'd be almost … virtually impossible to find or survey a group of people and find someone who is just not online at all or have any service subscriptions for anything. But whether it's for business or personal use, or if it's a need or want, it's kind of hard to avoid having subscriptions in this day and age. The obvious ones that come across your mind are

02:01
Netflix, Spotify, the big media-giant streamers that everyone uses day to day. But you'll learn through our conversation, there's so many more subscriptions that most people don't even think about or realize that they have. And I really want to point out at the top of this that it's completely fine to have subscriptions, as long as you use them and value them. It's the automatic continuous subscriptions that you either don't use at all or you sign up [for] and forget about.

02:27
Those are what we like to call zombie subscriptions. And those are the ones that can really tear up your budget if you're not careful.

Amy Laburda
So you wrote about this topic in our company newsletter, Sentinel, back in November. And I was genuinely surprised at some of the statistics you found. I think, as you said, it didn't surprise me that most people have a subscription. But these subscriptions that people are paying for and not using seem like they're a bigger deal than I really realized before we worked on that article.

Kasey Radney
Yeah, that actually surprised me, too, when I dug into it.

02:55
I actually came across an interesting study, by C+R Research, [that] they did, that showed the average, typical person with their subscriptions, what they think they're spending, they're underestimating by over two and a half times of what the actual cost is. And then there was another study by CNET, a prominent tech article, that showed that the average adult spends about $1,000 a year on subscriptions, and $200 of that $1,000 goes to subscriptions they no longer use or they've forgotten about. So I was just surprised at...

03:25
Most people don't realize how much money they're losing on these subscriptions that they're signing up for on a day-to-day basis.

Amy Laburda
Yeah, I think it's easy. You know, some of these are $6 a month, $10 a month. It's really easy to dismiss. Like, oh, well, if I'm not keeping a real close eye on them, what's the harm? But it seems like the harm is that they can really add up when there's, you know… It's not just the one $6 subscription that you've missed.

Kasey Radney
Absolutely. Let's stick with the zombie metaphor here. If you were facing down one single zombie face to face,

03:55
most people would probably feel fairly confident they could take it out. But you turn a corner and there's a horde of zombies looking at you, most people wouldn't survive. These subscriptions work the same way. For most of us, day to day, we're dealing with a horde of subscriptions, and that's where it becomes a problem. A single subscription, like you mentioned: less than $20 a month. Most people do not hit panic by seeing that on their bank statement. It's when you have five of those that it quickly racks up and you realize, oh, I'm spending a lot more money per month than I

04:24
was anticipating. Just the math on it, if you're spending $20 a month for five of those subscriptions, you're spending over $1,200 annually. And that's a big number for most people.

Amy Laburda
So I'm just curious, did working on that article and preparing for this podcast point out any zombies in your own budget that had been hiding from you?

Kasey Radney
100% yes. When I was writing the article, I actually went through my bank statements, because I wanted to see how my own

04:52
zombie subscriptions looked. And I actually found this photo editing app that I had downloaded about two years prior. It was right after a family vacation. I wanted to touch up some photos, make them look nice, and then just forgot to go in and delete it because it was through — it was linked to my Apple ID. And I just completely forgot about it. So for two years I was paying [for] that subscription, not using it.

Amy Laburda
Man, the apps will get you. I feel like, you know, they're still on your bank statement the same way anything else is, but they feel somehow sneakier to me.

Kasey Radney
They do. They fly under the radar for sure.

Amy Laburda 05:23
So I also kind of took a look at my statements when we were working on that article. And I think one thing that it made me realize was that it's not just the entertainment, the Netflix, the Spotify-s. But when you're looking for subscriptions, there are other things that pop up. I know that for me, during lockdown, I subscribed to a local coffee roaster here in New York City where I am, because I wanted to support local businesses. I wanted a little treat for myself when I was stuck at home. And I've kept up with it.

05:50
You know, I don't regret that, but I don't know that I would have thought of that as a subscription in my portfolio of subscriptions. Similarly, I don't know if you've heard of Rancho Gordo. It's a bean subscription service, like dry beans. And they're so popular, they have a waiting list. I have a friend who was on it and finally got to actually buy the beans, which is not only a subscription, but a subscription that's exclusive. You have to wait for it.

Kasey Radney
A waitlist for a subscription. That's a new one. I don't think I've ever heard of a wish listed subscription.

Amy Laburda 06:18
Look, she's made me the beans. They're good beans. I don't know.

Kasey Radney
It has to be good coffee to be on a wait list. No, I think you're right 100% on that too. You're not alone in that. Most people, they think of a subscription, myself included, you think of the Netflix. You think of the big streamers that you use day in and day out. [They] almost become synonymous with the word subscription. But it is true that there are millions of different subscriptions offered out there.

06:43
I think the subscription model has become more prominent, especially since COVID. When people are at home, they want the convenience of not only software and streaming, but their physical goods. That's also a subscription as well. And then just for companies, they're able to really depend on predictable, recurring revenue that comes from these subscription models. And that’s … for companies, they love that.

Amy Laburda
Yeah. So from the business side, is that…Locking in a customer on a recurring revenue [basis], Is that really the main driver of the

07:13
explosion of subscriptions we've been seeing, from their point of view?

Kasey Radney
Yes, I think so. I think it's a main driver. It's better for companies instead of selling a product that's a one-time sale. They can really build and design this continuous relationship with their customers. It really allows them to build a unique customer experience as well. Most subscription models offer special perks that you don't get with just the free version, or the one-time sale version of the product. There's also lot of customization and even

07:42
convenience is built into that, if you think of no-ad subscriptions that are prominent across the board. So I think for companies, it's… A huge part of that is building out the experience for the customer that then they get the benefit of continuous revenue from them.

Amy Laburda
So we're going to get back to the zombie subscriptions in a minute. But as you observed earlier, if you're using a subscription, it doesn't sound like that's necessarily a bad thing. You can get a lot of value out of those subscriptions, if they're a thing that really aligns with

08:10
something that you're using a lot, something that fits into your lifestyle. So it's not the subscription model itself that is necessarily the problem here.

Kasey Radney
Yes. Think about software streaming. We'll just start there. Instead of having to go and buy an individual CD or DVD for everything that you want to watch, and pay hundreds of dollars for that to build out your own personal library, now you pay a small monthly fee and you get access to an entire library of properties

08:39
to watch and stream. Usually, a lot of it’s new content, too, that you would have to spend hundreds of dollars going to the movie theaters [for]. So for that subscription model, there's value in that as well. And even when we talk about physical goods, as I mentioned before, think about Amazon and Amazon Prime. When you would have to go to brick-and-mortar stores, you're now paying for the convenience of it being delivered directly to your doorstep. I mean, we're able to get millions of products each day delivered right to our doorstep because of this subscription model.

09:10
So the big question I think you need to ask yourself about valuing certain subscriptions is: What value are you really getting for yourself for paying this fee for a subscription? That's the big question to ask.

Amy Laburda
What makes it so easy to lose track of these subscriptions? I certainly agree that it is. I think they can fly under the radar, whether they're apps or software or physical goods.

Kasey Radney
Human behavior. That's the best answer I can give. Human behavior is the main reason we tend to lose track of our subscriptions.

09:37
Just like your coffee, right? Your coffee you love every day. Most people spend a couple of dollars on a cup of coffee a day, but they don't track it most of the time. Most subscriptions are like that. A $9.99 subscription here or a $15 subscription there, that is usually small enough to fly under the radar and not cause panic if you see it come down on your credit card. And then automatic payments on top of that, where you just set it and forget it, and you

10:04
get the luxury of enjoying the subscription each month. That makes it really easy to forget about them and have them grow unseen. It's out of sight, out of mind. You don't think about it.

Amy Laburda
I've been looking for a “set it and forget it” thing for ages on this podcast. And now that we found one, it's kind of evil, actually.

Kasey Radney
You completely forget about things that you just [put] out of sight. You don't look at it and stop. Not there. It doesn't exist.

Amy Laburda
So while we're sort of on that topic, let's talk about free trials for a minute.

Kasey Radney
Sure.

Amy Laburda 10:33
I'm a big believer in… If I sign up for something, write a big, all capitals “cancel” on my calendar in big letters, because that's really the only way I found that I consistently remember to do it. And I imagine that it's not a coincidence, from the business’s side, that it takes something like that to get your attention and makes it so easy to lose track of something that was initially free.

Kasey Radney
Yeah, you're ahead of the game for most people on that, myself included.

Amy Laburda
Yeah.

Kasey Radney
It's not a coincidence. Free trials are actually

11:01
a psychological tool that most companies use. And they're designed to get your service transitioned to them daily. The big push behind it is they want their product or their service to be ingrained into your daily life. And that free trial is to kind of get you hooked on to that. Most companies tend to make that sign-up process for the free trial super simple. A few clicks and you're in. But then they make the cancellation process really difficult on purpose so that you just decide, I'll just keep it. Why not?

11:30
It's too much trouble to go in and cancel it. However, companies are generally required by state law to alert you prior to that free trial expiring or automatically converting over to a paid subscription. So you should, even if you do forget to put “cancel” in bold letters, you should get an alert. So make sure you're keeping an eye out for those. What you do is absolutely a good practice, is to set calendar reminders a couple of days before, maybe a week before that free trial is set to expire, so you know you can go in

11:57
and make sure you're not being converted to an automatic subscription.

Amy Laburda
Yeah, the bold cancel strategy is definitely one that was born out of forgetting one or two and paying for more than I meant to in the past. So it was not … It was not sprung out of the ground fully formed.

Kasey Radney
Yeah, absolutely. It's… Again, if it's in your face and not out of sight, it's much easier to keep track of and follow.

Amy Laburda
For sure. So I also noticed when I was doing that audit of my own subscriptions after we wrote the article,

12:27
that I have a few annual subscriptions kicking around in there, generally for me because they're a little bit cheaper. But other than cost, what are some pros and cons of the longer term subscriptions, that aren’t month to month?

Kasey Radney
Sure. So the biggest benefit of the annual versus monthly subscription is most times going to be the cost. They're typically offered at a discount compared to paying by month, just because they want to lock you in for that longer annual amount. For business owners, this can be really, really beneficial compared to just individual use.

12:57
Typical professional memberships and subscriptions and software licenses can be hundreds, if not thousands of dollars per year. For businesses, these subscriptions can get very costly to their bottom line. However, there's… An additional downside of those annual subscriptions is that, for businesses, they can be even easier to forget about, because you're setting them up for automatic payments and you're charged one time a year versus monthly, where again, it's much more visible for you to see. You may forget

13:25
that your renewal date is fast approaching. And for business owners, if you forget the date’s coming up and it's a very large cost to your budget for your business, that can be a very dangerous pitfall for them.

Amy Laburda
I know that a lot of businesses, reputable businesses, do send you a reminder before that annual subscription comes up. But even then, they can sometimes come as such a surprise where you're like, oh, is it that time already? So I imagine it's even worse when you're running a business and have all these other things to keep track of.

Kasey Radney 13:53
Yeah, it's… The big thing for businesses too, is if you're not tracking and categorizing your subscriptions properly, you're losing out on the tax deductions that you can take for these subscription services, because they are part of your business expense for operating what you do day to day. So if you forget about it, not only are you taking the hit on the cost, but then you're also potentially losing tax savings as well. So that's another dangerous pitfall.

Amy Laburda 14:15
So a few weeks before we’re recording this, I saw some news coverage about pushback from a group of customers on manufacturers trying to bundle subscriptions into physical objects. You know, back in 2022, BMW got a lot of flak because they started trying to charge a monthly subscription for the seat warmers in their cars. I think they ended up backtracking on that after there was enough outcry. But, you know, things like printers, things like smart fridges, things like garage door openers.

14:44
All of these are things that those of us old enough to remember a pre-internet era are like “why is the internet in that at all?” And now they're going from built-in all the time to a subscription model. So I was just curious if you've heard about any trends in this area or anything that buyers, on the consumer end, should keep in mind when they're buying these smart devices.

Kasey Radney 15:06
Yes, I'm glad you mentioned the printers. There were a set of printers a few years ago where if you didn't subscribe and use that specific company's ink, they would essentially turn off your printer. It would essentially be a massive paperweight sitting there until you purchased their printer ink to use. There's been a lot of that across the board with physical, typically appliances that companies want to build in the subscription model or add on something that requires you… Again,

15:34
they want to build that continuous relationship and ingrain their product into your daily life, to where you need them. And that makes it very difficult to separate. However, not everything needs a subscription. Not everything should require you to use the touchscreen on your refrigerator to order your groceries through your refrigerator. So I do think there is a kind of an overextension of the subscription model. But we are seeing that a lot. Physical items that,

16:02
again, like you mentioned, in the past, they were simple, are now being almost over-engineered with technology and subscriptions. So yeah, you got to keep an eye out for those as well, because they'll sneak under your radar if you're not careful.

Amy Laburda
So I think we've covered a lot of the types of subscriptions out there. So let's talk about zombie prevention tips. It sounds like the first task is to just track these things down, because there are so many of them and so many of them can fly under the radar. So what's the best way to identify the subscriptions you currently have active?

Kasey Radney 16:31
So a personal audit is going to be the best place to start. The first thing is to pull all of your account statements. This includes your credit cards, your bank account statements. Oftentimes could be Venmo or Cash App. Make sure you're looking at all corners of your budget and where your money is going. And once you have those pulled, I would say typically go back at least a full year. So you're making sure you're catching any of those annual subscriptions we were talking about and they don't catch you unaware. But I would start there, by pulling your bank

16:58
account statements: looking through, categorizing them, earmarking the subscriptions. Because again, if you don't see it, you don't know about it.

Amy Laburda
Yeah. In an earlier episode about sort of more general budgeting, which I'll link in our show notes, I talked with our colleague Rebecca Pavese about the way that budgeting can look different for everyone. Obviously, people have different incomes, different expenditures, but people also have different temperaments. I know some people like to automate as much as they practically can.

17:26
Some of us are weirdos who like our spreadsheets and the granular control that those offer. Not tipping my hand too far on which one I am right there. [laughs] But is it fair to say that when it comes to tracking your subscriptions, the same principle applies, that temperament can play in as much as actual facts?

Kasey Radney
Well, first I'll say I also love a good spreadsheet. So I think I'm right there with you on that, Amy. But I agree with Rebecca. It's like with most things in life. There's no one size fits all

17:54
for everyone. The methods vary. It really does depend on who you are, what your situation is, what works best for you. For example, let's say you, Amy, let’s say you run a business that requires the full Microsoft Office suite of products. You also really love TV entertainment, so you have every single TV streamer that exists. And you also love to shop, so you have Amazon Prime and you deliver from that religiously. And then I'll say, on the other hand, I just like The New York Times and a TV show from Disney

18:23
every now and then. So our needs are very, very different for tracking subscriptions. You have a lot more to track. You have a business that you may be running. So it's really finding what works best for you.

Amy Laburda
Yeah. So in fact, I am a movie lover and I don't… I will not claim I have every video streamer, but I do — I have quite a few. I found, for me, that it's helpful that I just have a spreadsheet with, you know, what the streamer is, when the renewal date is, you know, sort of…

18:53
If I have friends or family who are paying for the add-on subscription, which I do in a couple cases, those kinds of things. So it has gotten to the point where there is in fact a granular tracking. But many people are not going to go that hard, I realize this. For people who are more normal than me, are there other ways to keep track? Is it just a matter of keeping an eye on your spreadsheet or are there other tools out there that they might want to use?

Kasey Radney 19:22
Sure. I'm going to advocate for spreadsheets, too. I'm with you, Amy, on that. I'm going to advocate. But there are companies out there that, if you are not wanting to go super granular, there are companies that offer their services, that they can automatically scan your transactions for recurring subscriptions, annual subscriptions. Some even offer their services to help cancel subscriptions that you don't want. However,

19:44
it's good to know that, ironically, those same services are often subscriptions themselves. So you have to be really careful that the solution that you're looking for to track doesn't also become part of the problem. Also, because they're scanning your transactions, your statements, you should be very careful and vet the privacy policy and the reputation of the company that you look at before you give it any access to your accounts or your financial situation at all. Make sure you

20:11
thoroughly read through all of their terms and conditions before you give it access to scan for these features. They can be helpful, if that is what you need for your method.

Amy Laburda
OK. And, you know, we already talked sort of a little bit about the particular dangers business owners have with subscriptions. Obviously, you want to keep track of them the same way. But are there any particular wrinkles that business owners should keep in mind?

Kasey Radney
I would say for business owners, it is a different beast than for personal ones for subscriptions.

20:41
I would really suggest… Things to look out for is: Really go through and think about what tools you use for your operation in the business, day to day, and make a list from that. So not quite so much as looking through personal bank statements, but really dig into, OK, what services does my business use on the day-to-day operations? That can include accounting software. If you have a website, it could include the website domain hosting that you use. Your marketing services. The list can go on and on.

21:10
But really make sure you make a list, if you're a business owner. Track the subscription amounts and the frequency. Don't forget those annual subscriptions. These are typically going to be the high-cost expense items for businesses as well. And as I mentioned prior, if businesses don't track and accurately categorize these subscriptions, they can't deduct them from their taxes. So they're missing out on a huge benefit for that as well.

Amy Laburda 21:34
Yeah. And I imagine with businesses, a thing you don't have with individual subscriptions is that a lot of these charge per seat or per user. So it seems like, if… Even if you're still using a particular piece of software, it might make sense to check how many of those seats you're really using still.

Kasey Radney
Yes. Many business subscriptions are built on a per-user basis. So that means the more users that you have on that account or that subscription, the higher your overall cost is going to be.

22:03
So if you're a business owner, you really need to keep an eye on those types of subscriptions because, let's say for instance, you fail to remove former employees or employees that are no longer with your business from that account or subscription model, then you're paying a higher cost than you should be for subscription that you're using. These excess charges can really stack up and hit your bottom line if you're not careful with them.

Amy Laburda
So whether you're an individual or a business, we've done our audit. We now know what all of our subscriptions are. We have a big list. What's the next step?

Kasey Radney 22:33
OK, keeping the zombies under control. Here's what we need to do. First, you need to go through and make a note of any of the subscriptions on that list that don't seem familiar. We can't properly account for all of your subscriptions if there are any unknown variables. Doesn't work. Once you have that list set, then you can consider which subscriptions you're actually going to use versus those that don't make the cut. That's the important next step.

Amy Laburda
OK, so it seems like it's probably a gimme to… Anything that you didn't know you were paying for

23:02
you can obviously let go. And anything that you're using every day, that is a huge part of your life, can go in the “keep” pile, unless you're actively trying to save money in your budget. But I imagine for a lot of us, there are a lot of in-between subscriptions on the list, where you're like, oh, I'm using it. But am I using it enough? As a financial planner, how do you think about those subscriptions that are kind of in the middle of the curve, that aren't clear keeps or clear cuts at immediate face value?

Kasey Radney 23:30
Sure. The financial planner in me wants to say: your opportunity cost. I'm sure you've heard that before. But it really comes down to, you have to ask yourself the brutal question of “what true value do I receive from this subscription?” I ask you these questions. Did I use it in the last month? Did I use it in the last two months? How often am I getting value from this? Or how often am I getting a package delivered? If the answer to any of those questions, and your brutally honest questions to yourself, is no,

23:58
it's usually a good sign that you're not using it enough and it's time to get rid of it. If it falls really into the middle ground, and you still … I kind of want to keep it. I may use it. Make it make sense in your budget. If it doesn't fit into your budget, and it doesn't fit into that line item, and you have to remove something for it or you have to make accommodations elsewhere just for that one subscription, it's also a good sign that you probably don't need it.

Amy Laburda
Yeah. I know with entertainment subscriptions, video subscriptions specifically,

24:26
I often have a service where there's one show that I want to keep up with, but it's not airing new episodes all the time. So I'm a “pick it up when the show comes, watch it, and then drop it” person. Is that common? Is that a thing a lot of people do with these, you know, sort of one-off a month here, a month there approaches?

Kasey Radney
I do this same method, strategy, actually. There's just… There's so many different TV streamers today. It's impossible to keep up. It's actually impossible.

24:56
I do think this is really common. It's more common nowadays than anything, just with the increase of different TV options out there. I think there's over 50 now, I think it's … big ones. This method, though, does require some discipline and some additional legwork than simply subscribing and keeping it. But you actually have to routinely unsubscribe from one subscription and then go in and resubscribe to the different one.

25:22
And so when you do that, we talked a little bit about this, but the cancellation processes can be very difficult. So if you end up getting tired or exhausted or annoyed [by] the switching, you may decide to ditch the strategy altogether and end up with multiple subscriptions that you don't use completely either way. So talk about being back at square one, you're just back with multiple subscriptions. So it really takes discipline and the legwork to go in and make the switch routinely.

Amy Laburda 25:51
It also takes a willingness to tell all of your friends, “I will watch “Pluribus” eventually. I'll get there.”

Kasey Radney
I've heard it's incredible. Not a plug, but I've heard it's incredible.

Amy Laburda
Well, maybe we'll both get there eventually, when we rotate back. So we've got our list. We've got the “keeps,” we've got the “get rid ofs for now” or “get rid ofs forever.” And that, as you said, there's maybe a pile of work in front of us. So what's the next step, once we've identified either the zombies or potential zombies that we want to take out?

Kasey Radney 26:21
Sure. Yeah, it does no good if you make the list and you find all these on the subscriptions and you decide they give you value or they don't and then do nothing. Right? That's basically the same as keeping all of them. For subscriptions that you decided that you really value and you want to keep, that's great. Just make sure you incorporate them into your personal budgeting system, whether that's a spreadsheet or an app, however you need to do it. Make sure you incorporate those, so that you can continue to track them going forward and they don't become zombies again.

26:50
If you don't, you run the risk of the effect of the zombie subscription snowballing, if you don't incorporate them back into your budget, because you may think you have more in your budget for additional subscriptions. So really make sure that you're going through and incorporating those. For those that you want to get rid of completely, the answer is simple. You've to get started with canceling them. I know this can be exhausting and take a lot of work, but a lot of them are available to cancel online.

27:15
However, others may require you to make a few phone calls or go a few extra steps. But it is important. Get rid of them.

Amy Laburda
Yeah. I think gyms are pretty notorious. I definitely have had the experience of… I had a gym I had to, I think, once send a piece of certified mail to cancel my subscription for, which I can tell you: Signing up did not require sending a piece of certified mail. So. I think a lot of people have had similar experiences. Now, not every business is as bad as a gym.

27:42
But typically, what kind of friction… We've talked a couple times about how hard some businesses make it to cancel. What kind of stumbling blocks do they often put in people's way?

Kasey Radney
Yeah, it's unfortunate. There are companies that make it extremely difficult to cancel. It shouldn't be the case. They design it to keep you hooked on that subscription or service, even if you don't use it, because they're still getting that revenue at the end of the day. I will say at the top, the best method

28:08
to look for these cancellations is: look for a direct cancellation webpage, or even just going direct to the source and calling the company. I know most people don't like to get on the phone and deal with the representative, or maybe the bot that you have to, but oftentimes finding a human representative can be the quickest route to canceling. But there are many tools that companies use day to day to keep your subscription.

28:32
For example, a lot of companies will send you through what's called a digital maze, where the cancel subscription link is buried deep into multiple web pages, or it's hidden in the account settings, and you really have to navigate all these different pages and links and clicks to get to the page where you can finally cancel. And then it's going to ask you three more times to click a button before it actually gets you. Other companies will just guilt trip you.

28:56
They’ll make you feel bad for canceling. It'll say it on their button, “Are you sure? You're missing out on all the beautiful perks that our company offers.” And then other companies will require you to engage with a chatbot or go through a voice recording to cancel, which is… Most people have experienced these. They're extremely frustrating to get through to make a cancellation, when you have to go through four screens or four sets of robot instructions. A lot of this is designed to frustrate you enough that you decide it's not worth all

29:25
this work and exhaustion. “I'll just keep this subscription.” I think the biggest culprit is… There's companies that will treat their products like subscriptions when they shouldn't be. These are ones that customers are used to paying for once. It's logical that most companies that deal with programs or software, that those become subscription models. But now we're seeing manufacturers for items like cars, appliances,

29:51
garage doors, as you mentioned earlier, there's some out there that are subscription based. Those are getting into the game too. If you think going onto a webpage and clicking cancel is difficult enough, try canceling a subscription for a physical item that you have.

Amy Laburda
I think there's also, I've run into the carrot as well as the stick, as far as companies that are so eager to keep you that they're like, “What if we only charged you a dollar a month for the next three [months]?” Like, you know, those,

30:18
we're going to give you the best deal we can to try and keep you. And then by month four, maybe you'll forget that you wanted to cancel at all. And it goes back to normal.

Kasey Radney
The cancellation offer. It's always a good one.

Amy Laburda
For sure. So I remember hearing about, a little while ago, the Federal Trade Commission coming up with a “click to cancel” rule. I think it was back in ’24. Is that still enforced? Did it ever come into force? What's the status with that these days?

Amy Laburda 30:44
Unfortunately, it's not at the moment. I think it is a great rule that the FTC was trying to implement. The FTC really recognized the harm that these difficult cancellation processes are causing. And in 2024, they actually introduced a rule to curb this practice across the board for companies. The rule essentially required companies to make it as simple

31:05
for users to cancel as it is to sign up for a subscription. And again, we all know how easy it is to sign up for a subscription. So this was going to be a really, really nice change. However, unfortunately, in July of 2025, the U.S. Court of Appeals vacated that rule, just on procedural grounds. So as of now, it's not clear if the FTC will go back down that route. I personally hope they do. I hope for you, as well, for the gym membership. It makes it a lot easier for you next time.

Amy Laburda 31:34
Sure. This is just a personal question. I'm just curious. Do you have any recommendations when you're sitting down? You're like, oh, I’ve got to make these phone calls. I’ve got to find these websites. When you're dealing with this sort of unpleasant chore, do you have a particular strategy you use? Or is it a kind of Nike, “just do it” situation?

Kasey Radney
Sure. I think that no one's going to like the answer, but because no one likes to sit on hold and wait for a subscription to be canceled. But it really is beneficial long term. So I think

32:02
the best strategy, for me personally and I hope for everyone else, is really schedule a time to sit down in a batch and go through, and make all these cancellations at one time. You've already marked them down. You have your list. You can go down the row. And really set a block early in the morning, make all the calls you need, and just get rid of the zombies all at once. It's going to be unpleasant, but only for an hour or so, and then you're free. So that would be my strategy.

Amy Laburda 32:28
Awesome. So it may take a while, but say we've done it. I've made all the calls. I've sent all the mail, if I have to. And I've cleaned up my zombie subscriptions. Am I done? Am I free?

Kasey Radney
That's the thing about zombies. If you're not careful, they come back. So really make sure that you're continuing to track your subscriptions. Review them on a frequency that's comfortable for you, because those forgotten ones, you may sign up for more in the future. So really make sure you're incorporating it into your budget and track them, track them, track them.

Amy Laburda
Yeah.

32:55
I imagine you said “frequency that's comfortable for you,” but as a financial planner, do you have a suggestion for a cadence that's reasonable? I imagine you don't have to be checking them daily, but it should be more than once a year. Where's the sweet spot?

Amy Laburda
Yeah, it doesn't have to be that granular. I would recommend reviewing subscriptions at least on a quarterly basis. I believe three months is enough time that you can honestly go through and see: Did I use that during that month?

33:21
Did I really truly value that service? How often did I use it? I think three months is a nice sweet spot for that. It's also enough time for you to go back through and review and understand which ones that you need to be canceling for the next quarter. So you can go through and make your mini list each quarter, so you know what work you need to do in the following quarter. And then let's talk about annual renewals as well. I think a quarterly frequency is enough time to help you catch those and give you enough time to plan ahead for your annual renewals.

Amy Laburda 33:49
So new subscription services are certainly going to cross your path. You know, you're not only stuck with the ones you've decided to keep or get rid of in this first exercise. We talked a bit earlier about the dangers of free trials, but what if you're signing up for a free trial because you're actually trying to decide whether you want to keep it? You are not going in with the intention of never paying for it. How do you go about evaluating a new potential subscription to add to your portfolio?

Kasey Radney
Yeah, again, I want to harp on that subscriptions are not bad.

34:18
They're not bad as long as you're valuing and actually using them. It's the ones that you don't use and sign up for one time and forget about. Those are the ones we have to keep an eye out for. But I would really first consider the personal value you're getting for adding that new subscription. Because you're adding that cost to your life too. Is it a want or is it a need? That's something you need to ask yourself. And then also what is the trade-off for adding this new subscription? You can consider how it fits into your budget. And let's say you may have a specific amount that you're allowing yourself

34:47
for subscriptions on a month to month [basis]. And if you add a new one, that goes into that line item. So essentially you could build yourself a one in, one out type of system, where you have your set budgeted amount for subscriptions. Does this new one fit in? OK, what subscription do I need to remove for this new one to fit in? And that'll help you just automatically eliminate your choice. If you don't think that the new subscription that you're bringing in is worth removing an existing subscription, that may make your decision for you. So it is really

35:15
about evaluating what your trade-off value is for that new subscription.

Amy Laburda
That makes sense. I think, especially with entertainment, it feels like bundle options have become more and more prominent recently. As we're recording this, the Apple TV and Peacock bundle is a fairly new entrant to the scene, but certainly not the only one out there. Are bundles a thing that are useful, or are they a way to encourage you to overspend, or can they be both things?

Kasey Radney
So I think the answer is definitely both. If you're already

35:44
paying for and using the individual pieces of the bundle, then it can make sense financially to subscribe to the bundle itself and save on the individual pieces. This option also comes with the additional benefit of: Now you're tracking one subscription, versus many individual different subscriptions at a time. However, on the other hand of that answer, if you're only interested in one of those truly, if you only like Apple TV and you really don't care about Peacock, then that bundle would end up just costing you more in the long term

36:14
and I would just ultimately stick with the individual subscription.

Amy Laburda
Sure. And then you end up with the awkward, you know, Peacock carries the Olympics coming up. You're like, “Oh, I'll go ahead and subscribe to the bundle.” But after that time, if you're not using it anymore, you're like, OK, not only do I have to, like, unsubscribe from Peacock, but I have to unbundle them if I want to keep Apple TV. And it's an extra chore you've added to your list.

Kasey Radney
Absolutely. You're just building more legwork for yourself.

Amy Laburda 36:40
For sure. All right, so we talked earlier about switching services for a shorter period of time. If you're sort of doing this one in, one out, or you're handling your budget this way, what are some signs that you're a good candidate for that kind of approach? Or, conversely, that maybe it's not the best strategy for you?

Kasey Radny
I do think it's more of a self-reflection exercise for that. It's, again, based on the type of person you are, what you enjoy,

37:10
the type of … ways that you like to track things. If you're able to continue to track and switch services, and do that work of canceling and then resubscribing, this could be a great strategy for you. As we discussed, most subscriptions make it super easy for you to sign up, and then most of them also make it easy to resubscribe. So at least that part of the process is simple, but again, canceling and turning a subscription off can increase the amount of work that you have to do.

37:36
If the cancellation process requires you to jump through a bunch of hoops, I think you could easily become frustrated with the switching process and then just revert back to keeping all the individual services. So if you're a person that leans more towards that temperament of… you're going to get exhausted by the process, I wouldn't recommend doing that.

Amy Laburda
So when this episode airs, it will be a couple of months past the holidays. And I imagine some people might get subscriptions as holiday gifts. Now that we're, you know,

38:05
eight weeks-ish, nine weeks-ish past when you probably received that, are those a particular trouble spot to look for? Things that were a gift initially, but eventually you will have to pay to keep?

Kasey Radney
Yes. Yeah. So almost the gift becomes a burden, if you're not careful. Yes. So that's another thing that you would add to your audit list, is — when you're going through personally — is keep track of those as well. And again, it's… If that nice box of cold meats comes to your door every month because it was a gift, randomly, by a cousin,

38:33
you want to make sure that, if it does convert to a paid subscription, do you want to keep getting the subscription? So I think that's something very, very big to look out for. And in that same vein of thought is: Some people share the subscription costs with their roommates, let's say, for instance. So I may Venmo my roommate my share of the subscriptions that month. So that's also something you need to incorporate into your statement. Don't forget about those because they are part of that cost. So that's another thing to keep an eye out for.

Amy Laburda
All right. So we've covered a lot of ground today.

39:01
As our regular listeners know, I like to end an episode by handing things over to my guest to wrap up. So Kasey, I've pumped you for a lot of information about subscriptions in this episode, but is there anything you wanted to talk about that we didn't cover or any just final thoughts to leave our listeners with?

Kasey Radney
Yes. The last thing I want to add is more for parents with younger children. I've seen it before.

39:26
Most people know I've worked at the Athens YMCA in the past, a nonprofit. I've seen this a lot with the younger children at the camps, is where… We live at an age where kids are growing up with technology, and so much is at their fingertips. Most parents don't know that sometimes their credit card is attached to the family account on the iPad or on the computer. And so when you go through that…

39:46
your list, your audit of your subscriptions, make sure you review those accounts, too. Sometimes kids get on there and play games, and those games have ads, or subscription models, or things like premium passes, that are targeted to young kids. And it's very easy for them to click that button to subscribe without you ever realizing that it's there. So that would be my final tip, for parents of young children. Make sure you're checking on your iPad accounts, too, or your computer accounts. Make sure you're keeping an eye on them, on what they're

40:15
paying for, because they can quickly, quickly spend money if it's just a simple button for the kid to press. So keep an eye out for that.

Amy Laburda
That makes sense. My childhood, I had to actually ask my parents for cash before spending their money. [laughs]

Kasey Radney
[laughs] Not anymore.

Amy Laburda
All right. Well, Kasey, thank you so much for sitting down with me today. I hope this was a useful topic for a lot of our listeners. I think it was certainly eye-opening for me. And I hope our listeners feel a little more empowered to keep on top of their subscriptions after this conversation.

Kasey Radney
Thank you for having me, Amy.

Amy Laburda 40:47
“Something Personal” is a production of Palisades Hudson Financial Group, a financial planning and investment firm headquartered in South Florida. Our other offices are in Atlanta; Austin; the Portland, Oregon metropolitan area; and the New York City metro area. “Something Personal” is hosted by me: Amy Laburda. Our producers are Ali Elkin and Joseph Ranghelli. Joseph Ranghelli is also our director, editor and mixer.

41:12
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